Laura Barr: I was at a point in my life where I thought, God, I wish I could just jump and go on the road. And I wish this could happen. Maybe someday this will happen.
Mindy Fried: Today I’m talking with Laura Barr, who was featured several times in The Shape of Care, my podcast about caregiving. Laura cared for her wife, Jean, who had early Alzheimer’s Disease. And during that time, Laura did her best to bring joy to their relationship, even as Jean’s health was declining. Part of that strategy was to buy a camper. And every Saturday morning, she and Jean would take off and drive a couple of hours to a campground. When they got there, Laura would build a campfire and make dinner. Jean really loved it. Until it was no longer possible because of Jean’s health.
As Jean’s disease progressed, she finally moved into a nursing home, and then COVID hit, and it hit nursing home residents hard. It’s estimated that 21% of all COVID deaths in the US were in nursing homes. Because of these high rates, they shut down to visitors. So Laura could no longer see Jean. And at that point, Jean didn’t recognize Laura on zoom calls.
Laura: I was alone in my house and I had a camper and on a Tuesday I was watching the news and they said we were going to get a snowstorm and I just thought, uh-uh, I'm not doing that. So on Wednesday I did all my laundry and grocery shopping and on Thursday morning at six o'clock I took off and I haven't been back since.
Mindy: There’s this myth that as we get older, we lose our curiosity. It’s not true for so many of us, and it’s not true for Laura. I wanted to talk with Laura for THIS podcast because she’s taken on what feels to me like a big undertaking - living on the road - but for her, feels totally natural. I’m inspired by Laura’s passion to discover new places of beauty, her ingenuity in handling the challenges she faces, and her openness to discovering and getting embedded in new communities. This is the life that feeds her, and I find it fascinating. I hope you do too.
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Mindy: Welcome to Next Chapters, a new podcast that explores the remarkable landscape of growing older for women – from relationships and sexuality to health care, housing and retirement. Next Chapters is proudly sponsored by Our Bodies Ourselves, a nationally renowned resource for the health and sexuality of women and gender-expansive people. I'm your host, Mindy Fried.
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Mindy: So are you, you're in your RV right now, in your camper? Laura: I am in my camper, yup. Indeed. This is the only place I have to be.
Mindy: So where are you?
Laura: I'm in Florence, Oregon.
Mindy: Oh my god.
Laura: Making my way up the Pacific coast. I generally stay for about two weeks at a place and then travel about four hours to get to the next place, sort of. I'm still working, so I am just moving my office from beautiful spot to beautiful spot.
Mindy: I spoke with Laura a few weeks before this call, and she told me that she had spent five whole months in the same place this winter.
Laura: Yeah, I ended up selling my house in Boston in October.
Mindy: Oh wow. Okay.
Laura: And I took off again, going down the Eastern seaboard and then across the Gulf Coast. And I made my way to Arizona. And kind of strangely, I've done that same route basically for probably the last five years now. And it's always been great. But this time it was not great. There people were jerks. I'm going to keep this PG.
Laura: I just had a really hard time. People were yelling at me. They weren't impressed by my adorable little dogs. So I ended up getting to RV Resort, they call it, in Apache Junction, which is a women's resort.
Mindy: Okay.
Laura: And I pulled in and it was just, the feeling was just amazing there. Like very, very friendly, really happy, blah, blah, blah. And I had planned to stay there for a month. I'd booked a site for a month there, but by the third day I had put an offer in on a place. So I ended up buying it. So my plan is now that I'm gonna be in Arizona from, like November through March or April. So the winter and then travel the rest of the year and then just get back to Arizona in early November again.
Mindy: When you say you bought a place, is it you bought a space to park or did you buy a house?
Laura: No, I bought a place to park. It's a pad, an RV pad with a shed and a little backyard and a little front yard. And I ended up buying a 36 foot trailer to park on it permanently. so it's like my house and I live there. The camper that I travel around in, I'll put in storage while I'm down there. And so it's a lovely community, really nice place with wonderful women, very community oriented, lots of stuff to do, wood shops, swimming pools. It's just really nice. It's really nice to be in a community again, you know, because actually I hadn't been in a community for a really long time, but I moved back to Boston for a couple of months last year to get my house ready to sell.
And, I had the best neighborhood in Boston. It really made me kind of look at things differently, you know, like I was so happy to be unbound by everything and be just on the road and stuff. But I realized the beauty of being in a community and what was really nice is, you know, Jean and I, it was a neighborhood of like almost a hundred gay households up on the hill in Jamaica Plain. And we pretty much started that. I think everybody kind of acknowledges that we started it. We would walk around. There was a realtor who was trying to sell the houses to gay couples.
Mindy: And I can guess who that was, but I'm not going to say.
Laura: Yeah, we would be walking Devon around and Jean, of course, would just go up to people and go, hey, we're thinking about having a party for the gays in the neighborhood. Is that something you might be interested in? And people either were or weren't. So we started the first party and everything. So what was really lovely being there this time was letting people know that I was leaving, you know the house was for sale and stuff. And so many people came up and told me how important Jean and I were to them. Like that we were an inspiration kind of and that was just really moving to me, you know? Because you don't really see your life that way, you know? But then when people, it's kind of like I always wish that people could be there for their own funerals. Yeah, so they could hear what people said. Or if I go to a funeral of somebody that I didn't know that well, I'm like, damn, I wish I knew this person better, you know?
So it's sort of, it was sort of like that like having people just be very kind and talk about what we meant to them. So to come into Apache Junction, and I don't have any of that history with the people there, but there's that sense of community and sense of we are each other's people sort of, you know, and it's great. In fact, on this trip that I'm on now, I'm going to be visiting a number of women from Apache Junction who spend the rest of their year in the Pacific Northwest.
Mindy: So you're kind of deepening those relationships when you all come back, you know, friends will be there.
Laura: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah
Mindy: So you're such an adventurer. I mean, I, you know, we've, we've talked a number of times through your whole process of supporting Jean when she was first diagnosed with early Alzheimer's and then you got the RV and you guys were taking these fun trips and, then at one point, and was it actually five years ago that you took off?
Laura: Yeah, I've been on the road for five years.
Mindy: Wow. Do you feel like a nomad? Where's the grounding or is that something that you don't need?
Laura: If there's any grounding at all, it's my kids. I check in with my kids on a, well, my daughter calls me every day. My son, I talk to a couple of times a week and I think that they really keep me grounded in the life that I've lived for the last 30 years, you know, but, my life now is, very different. And I've had the same job for 40 years. I was in the same relationship with Jean for 42 years. I lived in the same house for 36 years. And now I can't do anything for longer than two weeks at a time. So I just really like having things change regularly.
Mindy: Huh. So give me an example of some of the changes you've experienced in the past few months.
Laura: A lot of it is just physical, being in a different physical location. I have to make a lot of decisions all the time. I'm planning routes all the time. I'm trying to figure out where I want to be. I meet people who are sort of like, well, why don't you come check this place out or whatever. And so I'm free to do that, you know. I remember in the past, I'd be like, wow, I wish that we could make that happen. And now I feel like, well, let's just make that happen. It's easy to do now. I'm free to pursue whatever it is that I'm interested in. You know, I went to a bunch of little towns along the coast coming up north. I mean, I grew up in California, but there's so many places that I hadn't seen. You know, being at the Pacific Ocean is really something that I love and checking out all these little towns that are along the coast that people just live very, very different lives than living in Boston, particularly where I was for almost 40 years.
I just met a woman who told me about a place up in Washington state that's another kind of campground that you can buy into. I was just talking with her this morning and making plans to go up there and visit her in a couple of weeks. Maybe I'll buy a place there as well and have two places that I'm, you know, I think as I age, this is going to be more difficult. I've met a couple of women lately who have pulled themselves off the road and they're older than me. So I think I still have some time, but I think that I do need to sort of think about that as an eventuality. You know, the older you get, healthcare becomes more important. Having a community that, you know, if something happened to me, somebody would be walking my dogs or that kind of stuff. So I'm trying to sort of plan that out, but in a way that's, you know, exciting rather than, oh God, now my life's just going to slow down. You know, now we're at the end sort of thing.
Mindy: So do you feel that, you know, your ability to kind of follow the things that intrigue you is possible because your health is good?
Laura: Well, I wouldn't say that my health is that good. Honestly. Just, just before I left Boston, I, don't know how you say this came down with a case of A fib. So I've gotten issues with that. had a heart valve replacement not that long ago. And also the worst thing is I've been diagnosed with macular degeneration.
Mindy: That’s tough. My dad had that.
Laura: Yeah, it's under control, I think, but I do have to get injections every, currently every eight weeks. What my plan was originally was to fly back to Arizona to get the injections. Cause I got it. set up with a doctor there, but I'm supposed to get one this week and I didn't really make my airplane tickets in time. And it was going to be like close to a thousand dollars when you talk about the airfare and staying overnight and getting somebody to watch my dogs and blah, blah, blah. And so sort of at the very last minute, I got it together to find somebody locally who could do it. This is actually the first time that I needed to do it since I left Arizona. I learned valuable lessons on getting my act together ahead of time. You know, I think that these are sort of little messages to me that I have to become sort of realistic about making sure that these things get taken care of, you know?
Mindy: I don't know. I'm just thinking about, you know, all the time where you were taking care of Jean as she was declining. And at least initially, you know, your attitude was very much, OK, this is another hurdle that we're going to overcome. I'm just hearing you kind of looking at your own life and going, OK, how do I overcome this hurdle? Right.
Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's really true. Luckily my health was good back then, that's for sure, because I don't know if I could have done my stuff and her stuff at the same time.
Mindy: Oh my god yeah, well. Tell me a little bit about Apache Junction, this place that where you bought a place. Can you just go back to you started describing all the things that were going on? Can you paint a picture of what you imagine you'll get involved with when you're living in Apache Junction?
Laura: Well, I'm hoping that I'm going to retire soon. I mean, I know I'm in charge of that, but it's giving up the paycheck is daunting. I'm hoping that I'm going to retire soon because there's a lot of stuff there. They have a lot of classes, a lot of different clubs and those kinds of things. And people also just get together and go out rockhounding or go take trips to this place or that place informally, you know? And I really hope to be more involved with that. Cause now, you know, basically I spend most of my day inside working. I don't feel like I can at this point fully engage, but there are so many things to engage in. You know, there's a ukulele band, there's, there's political work that gets done. You know, there's poker, which I don't play, but a lot of people do. The more involved you get with people, you know, doing those kinds of things, the deeper your relationships get.
Mindy: You know, I guess after traveling for five years and kind of moving sort of regularly, is that what you're really wanting? Is the connections with people?
Laura: Yeah, I want to make sure that that's in my life, but I don't want to, I don't want to live in just one place. So to me, it feels kind of perfect right now to have that for a number of months and then still be able to travel for a number of months, because I love this life too. I was a little bit worried actually, when I left Apache Junction, that I was going to be like, damn, why am I doing this? You know, why did I leave? Well, I left because of the weather basically, but you know, I had people that I knew there and you know, going out to dinner with people and all this kind of stuff.
And on the road, you don't have that many opportunities to do those kinds of things. And so I was afraid that I wasn't going to love this life as much as I have been, but that has not proven to be true. I'm very happy to be back on the road and just, you know, walking around campgrounds with my dogs, talking to people and, you know, checking out new areas, you know, driving along, finding new beaches and just running down to the beach. And it's pretty great.
Mindy: I know that there's a women's RV camping organization. Is that something that you turn to to find places that you might want to visit?
Laura: Well, that's a really good question. You know, when I was in the Northeast, I was very, very involved with the chapter that's up there. And there are chapters all across the country. And what I really need to do is sort of look at where I am when and see if those organizations have rallies at that same time so that I could go in and join a rally.
Mindy: What’s a rally?
Laura: Well, like for the Northeast Network, they would have rallies starting in May and going through November. And it's one weekend a month for probably, you know, four days or something. We rent out spots in the campground and we all travel together, go there, share meals, go on tours and stuff like that. You have campfires. It's a blast. It's really, really fun. And I frequently say who in their life got to meet you know, 75 of their closest friends when they were 75 years old or 60 years old or something. But it's just a phenomenal group of people. And we share so much in common just off the bat, you know?
Mindy: Like what?
Laura: Like loving to live in RVs because, you know, that's an unusual thing sometimes. Most of my friends think I'm absolutely crazy to like this life.
Mindy: They're jealous.
Laura: Wouldn’t consider it for a moment. I don't think so. But like driving around Boston when I was there, I thought, this is just so weird, like you know, there's all the places that you go to, the places that you hang out and stuff like that. And you just keep going to those same places and hanging out at those same places. It just seemed so limiting to me all of a sudden, although I did it perfectly happily for 40 years. You know, it's just a completely different take on it, I guess.
Mindy: Yeah. I mean, you're making me want to go somewhere.
Laura: That’s the goal.
Mindy: Inspiring people from here to there. You know, you had a very long-term relationship with Jean and you saw each other through a lot of stuff. And now you've been independent you know, when did she die?
Laura: She died in 2023.
Mindy: 23. Okay. So it's been a couple of years. What's that been like for you? Just, you know, dealing with her being gone.
Laura: Yeah, that's a kind of hard question to answer, Mindy, because she was impaired for a long time. Like, Jean wasn't Jean for the last, you know, minimum six years, I would say. And so I think that there was a long time that I didn't really feel like I was in that relationship as a relationship. I was in that relationship as a caregiver. And also, I'm not sure that I would be living this life if Jean were still alive because she wouldn't, I don't think she would have enjoyed this. It wasn't really her thing ever. I mean, you know, she enjoyed it for the last couple of years when I bought the camper, but she was pretty severely into her Alzheimer's at that point. So there's that.
You know, I miss her terribly. And I miss the having someone to come home to sort of thing about being in a relationship. I was just talking with Maddie, our daughter recently who's just doing phenomenal stuff. She started a nonprofit to bring arts into prisons. It's just a crime that Jean put so much into raising our kids and didn't get the benefit of being able to see them as adults. To be able to see how all of that work really paid off. You know?
Mindy: Absolutely.
Laura: And it's a crime. It's just horrible. It makes me so sad.
Mindy: Yeah, yeah, I think for both your kids, right?
Laura: Yeah, they're both just doing wonderfully well. They're so socially inclined and Devin works at food banks and just doing awesome stuff, starting new programs. They're just really great kids. Yeah. And that's in large part because of Jane.
Mindy: Well, there were two parents, just as a reminder.
Laura: There were two parents, but one of them, I think, was slightly more hands-on.
Mindy: Yeah, yeah, I mean, do you feel at this point because it's been a while that you haven't been in a relationship, are you open to a new relationship?
Laura: You know, I don't think so. I really don't see that happening for me. You know, it's been five years that I've been on the road and I just feel more and more happier and happier living by myself. You know, I would love to have a group of friends that I could rely on. You know, if I want to go out to dinner with somebody, I could just call somebody up and say, hey, let's go out. And I do have that in the Apache Junction. But other than that, I have been in a relationship every day of my life since I was 17 years old. There was not a single break. And to be able to make my own decisions, be able to just decide whatever I want to do and do it, not have to triangulate with somebody, not have to, you know, just all the downsides of relationships. I know there's plenty of upsides, but I have plenty of people that are involved. They're in my life that I really enjoy, but I'm happy being able to go home at the end of the night.
Mindy: Yeah, I'm glad to hear, that's great. You know, well, the other thing that I think about just given our current political climate, politically, things are in such a difficult place right now for LGBTQ people. Do you feel that as you're traveling? Do you feel, is there any fear when you're traveling or things that you notice that kind of are? I don't know, orange or red flags that make you think, okay, maybe I shouldn't go to this state or I shouldn't hang out in this area.
Laura: Yeah, definitely. I don't feel afraid. You know I'm a big woman. I'm tall and I'm big and I don't know if it's false comfort or not, but I take comfort from that. I feel like I can handle myself in most situations or stay out of situations or whatever. And I know this could come back to bite me, but I just don't want to live with that level of fear. I mean, I'm afraid for our country, but I'm not personally afraid for my physical being and there are definitely states that I won't spend much time in, although I always thought that that was true of the South and I ended up just loving the Gulf coast at least, you know, Mississippi and Louisiana and the Alabama coast. I say coast specifically because, you know, it's mostly just artists communities and really lovely people who live down there.
But who knows what's going to happen? I'm afraid for my kids. I'm afraid for everybody really. The political climate is just so chaotic right now and seemingly getting worse and worse all the time. But I don't want to sound all Pollyanna-ish or anything. But even people who have Trump bumper stickers on their trucks or whatever, I've had great interactions with. You know, I just sort of feel on a person-to-person level, you can manage these relationships kind of. And I've also had bad relationships with Trump supporters.
Mindy: But within the RV community, imagine that there are, you know you've got that in common and, know, politically, maybe, you can sort of put that aside if you've got this important thing in common.
Laura: Right, I don't have those conversations. Normally we're talking about axles and dump stations and things like that.
Mindy: Right. That's the thing to bond around. Right?.
Laura: Right, exactly.
Mindy: So, you know, also, you know, obviously you're you're in touch with your kids a lot. And as you said, they ground you. Do you feel that the choice that you've made to, you know, be this adventurous and take off and really follow your, you know, what's intriguing to you and to take chances in this way? Do you think that's affected them?
Laura: I'm not sure how to answer that. It's affected them in a number of ways. I mean, they constantly tell me that their friends can't believe that this is how I live my life and that they just think, oh my God, your mom's so cool, blah, blah, which I don't necessarily feel cool, but I'm glad that their friends think that. I have given up on the idea of being a grandma who lives three blocks away from my kids and all that kind of stuff. But I love that idea, but my kids don't. Neither of my kids want to have kids. Well, I mean, for various reasons, Maddie would like to have kids, I think, but her life's just not set up that way right now. And Devin definitely does not want to have kids. And so I feel like me being able to live like this frees them to be able to live the life that they want without feeling that kind of unspoken responsibility to live a certain way to please me. And you know, Devin in particular, I think if he could figure out a way to live the same life that I am, he would do it in a heartbeat. He's got itchy feet, as he says.
So, you know, I think that they're proud of me. Somebody asked me one time if my kids were afraid for me. And I said, no, of course they worry about me. I said, of course they don't worry about me. And I was telling, was on a zoom call with them and I said, you know what? So and so said, she asked if you guys were worried about me. And I started laughing and they go, we are worried about you. And that kind of upset me a little bit. Like, what do you have to worry about? You know, like, yeah, I hope that they don't worry constantly. It doesn't seem like they do. It seems like they're, they're pretty happy. We're all pretty happy living the lives that we're living right now.
Mindy: When you were in your twenties, did you have a phase of, I guess, was there any kind of shadow of the adventurous Laura that you are now?
Laura: Absolutely. I had a panel truck, like an old Chevy panel truck that I had built a little bed in the back of. And I used to travel up and down the Pacific coast exactly like what I'm doing right now, as a matter of fact. And I lived in Oregon for a while and I would pass this little motel on the side of the road and it just had little cabins. And I remember thinking, that's how I want to live for the rest of my life in a teeny little cabin like that. That would be awesome. So I think I'm probably fulfilling my 20 year old dream life right now.
Mindy: A few decades later.
Laura: A few decades later, yeah.
Mindy: One thing that people, you know, some of the literature on aging, when people talk about how, you know, as we get older, we start reflecting on the themes that have defined our lives. And I imagine that you have some time to think and reflect.
Laura: I do have time to think, but I'm not really a reflector. I honestly don't, you know, I tried to like even keep a journal and I'm just not wanting to document my life or to think about it that way.
Mindy: Just let me do it for you, okay, Laura?
Laura: Okay, yeah, that's your role in my life. But you know, I've met so many people who are like, oh man, I wish that I could live the life like that you're living. And in so many ways, there's not that many reasons that they don't.
Laura: You know, I did not plan this. I had a vague idea, but I didn't plan it. And I really feel like just sort of not being tied down by your worries and by nervousness and stuff like that. And just try things, even as we age. I know it's more difficult. I'm not blind to that, but it's still possible. You know, you can still have an exciting life, know you, you don't have to be on the I'm waiting to die train, you know? Absolutely. You can still think of something to do and do it and just enjoy the trip, especially now. I mean, I know a lot of people retire and they travel and all that kind of stuff. So it's not everybody, but to still be excited about living every day and getting out there and having fun.
Mindy: If you enjoyed hearing Laura’s story you might enjoy hearing her on my other podcast, The Shape of Care. We’ll provide links in the show notes.
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Do you have a story to share about growing older? We’d love to hear from you. Our phone number is: 1-8-6-0-8-0-0-2-1-3-0. That’s 1-8-6-0-8-0-0-2-1-3-0 or e-mail us: at [email protected]. That’s [email protected].
Next Chapters is co-produced by me and Karen Given, who was also senior editor and engineer. Thanks to our project advisors from Our Bodies Ourselves, including Christina Barmon,Toni Calasanti, Joan Ditzion, Kim Hunt, Laura Prieto, Wendy Simonds, Taura Taylor, Dr. Imani Woody and Erreannau Zellous. Thanks to Jonese Austin, Eva Parker Passalacqua, and Kiki Zeldes for their work on creating the podcast website. Music is from Blue Dot Sessions.
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